Among all the other things we have to deal with these days, screen time has quickly become a big issue for today’s parents. It can feel really hard to get our kids off our screens. We can feel like bad parents for letting them indulge in YouTube rabbit roles and prolonged Minecraft sessions. There has to be a better way, right? Katherine Johnson Martinko certainly thinks so. And she thinks you can do it too.

In Childhood Unplugged, Martinko offers “practical advice to get kids off screens and find balance.” I had the opportunity to ask her a few questions about her book and her approach to modern parenting in the digital age. Please enjoy our interview transcript below. You just might find a nugget or two of wisdom you can apply to your daily parenting adventures too.

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Michael Kwan: What do you see as some of the unique challenges that urban and suburban families might face when it comes to screen time for their children compared to rural families? What about vice versa?

Katherine Martinko: I think any family can drastically reduce screen time no matter where they live. This became apparent to me when interviewing families for the book. Families from downtown Toronto thought they had the best place to do it, since they had such easy access to museums, swimming pools, skating rinks, theatres, concerts, zoos, parks, art galleries, and more. Families in rural northern Ontario thought they had the best arrangement, thanks to acres of forest and fields near their house. 

A key component of cutting back on screen time is enriching kids’ offline lives. This will look different based on where a family lives. Urban and suburban families have to go further to find nature, which can be challenging. They may feel reluctant to let kids roam free, due to traffic and dense populations. But they do have greater access to the cultural activities mentioned above, as well as neighbourhoods with other families and kids who can serve as playmates if their parents align with a “get-outside” philosophy. Urban/suburban families can sign their kids up for more activities and clubs, and the kids can often walk to school. Remember that even a tiny backyard can seem like a kingdom to a child!

Rural families can access nature more readily, which is endlessly stimulating, but that poses risks, too, usually in the form of water, animals, and getting lost. Kids still need supervision until a certain age and must be taught reasonable independence (like in urban and suburban settings). Rural kids may have more activities to do outside, but they often lack playmates apart from siblings. These families have to drive further to engage in cultural activities, extracurricular activities, social get-togethers, and more. 

I think that every setting has its benefits and drawbacks. No place is better than another; it’s about personal preference and where parents are comfortable living. The “digital minimalist” philosophy will adapt.

MK: As I’m sure you can appreciate, not all screen time is made alike. What’s your take on more passive screen time (like watching cartoons) compared to active screen time (like gaming) or screen time for communication (like video calls with grandma)?

KM: In the book, I talk about the difference between technology that “amplifies” versus “amputates” one’s life. Passive screen time, such as watching a movie together as a family, amplifies a kid’s life. It’s a positive, shared experience that is enjoyable, creates a bond, and gives everyone something to talk about later. I would categorize a video call with family members in the same way; it’s beneficial to all. I had one kid take music lessons over Zoom for a couple of years—another example of a positive use for technology.

I dislike gaming and interactive “educational” apps for their all-consuming nature, which scientists have found to overstimulate kids and make it hard for them to come down and back to reality. They’re highly addictive and isolating, too. Gaming has other issues that trouble me, such as violence, gore, misogyny, and antisocial behaviour, but I spend less time worrying about those details than I do simply encouraging my kids to find more valuable and rewarding activities to fill their days. There’s so much else to do!

MK: How do you feel about technological approaches to limiting screen time, like parental controls that lock out a device after a certain amount of time each day or turn off access after a certain time?

KM: Giving kids a daily max for time they can spend on devices creates problems. The kids start to feel entitled to it, demanding that it be carried over.

I’m not a fan of parental controls, which are essentially using technology to control technology when there’s a much simpler and more straightforward solution: Get rid of it. To me, installing parental controls is a Band-Aid solution to a far bigger problem. Well-meaning parents could be fooling themselves if they think that they can give their kid a device that is essentially a portal to the worst of the world (from tragic news to porn to cyberbullying to anxiety-inducing social media) and assume that they can still protect or “limit” their kid from its negative effects. That strikes me as illogical and too vast to manage. The technology is constantly changing, and many older kids know more about their devices than parents do. Why put yourself in that position in the first place? It’s better simply not to hand over the device.

It’s sort of like saying, “You can have minimal amounts of something I know to be bad for you because I don’t want to take it away completely.” We know that kids spend most of their time on social media, and we know social media pose a severe risk of harm and triggers the same dopamine response in the brain as cocaine and slot machines; many children cannot handle it being metered out and would benefit from not having it be a part of their lives at all.

MK: You touch a bit on this in the book, but what advice would you offer parents in navigating the peer pressure their children might face when it comes to screen time? What do you do when the kids become very upset that they don’t get to watch TV or play with tablets like how their friends at school do?

KM: My kids have always understood that we do things differently in our family. “Begin as you mean to go on,” I say in the book. A young kid won’t miss what they don’t know. Even though my kids saw TV and tablets at friends’ houses, they knew not to expect them in our own house and accepted that without question. As they got older, we talked about the choice my husband and I had made to minimize digital entertainment and prioritize other activities. The kids don’t always agree; there’s more pushback as they get older and I compromise by letting my kids text their friends from my phone or computer to arrange in-person get-togethers, by letting them watch movies or Netflix, by letting them go down the occasional YouTube rabbit hole. 

When my son is in grade 10, I’ll likely get him a Light Phone (or Canadian equivalent, without Internet access), which allows for texting and calling, podcasts, music, and more, minus social media apps. If he really wants social media eventually, he may access it from a desktop computer, so it’s not constantly accessible in his pocket.

I don’t see it as my job to ensure my kids “fit in” or do everything that everyone else is doing. I have real reasons to feel concern about excessive screen time, as the stats show (see Twenge’s latest book Generations if you want to dig into that). Parents have the right to say no, to deviate from the status quo, to create and protect values in the home. Kids don’t have to like it or agree with it.

MK: My daughter recently finished grade 3. One of her projects this past year was to create a PowerPoint presentation on a topic of her choosing. While her research was primarily offline, in the form of trusted library books, the actual creation of the PowerPoint deck was, of course, completely online using Office 365. Do you view this as an effective use of technology, helping prepare her for future careers in a digital world, or is this an example of “too soon” for introducing children to using laptops, tablets, online software, and the like?

KM: You’re lucky if she’s primarily doing research from library books! Well done. I see a huge emphasis in the classroom on Internet-based searches as research for projects, which I am constantly fighting against. My kids have had to do numerous PowerPoint presentations, as well. 

I do think of it as a premature introduction to technology (and as an educational cop-out by the system). I don’t buy into the notion that kids have to be trained in tech from an early age because (a) none of us were and it’s sufficiently intuitive that we picked it up quickly, and (b) tech changes so fast that most of the apps kids learn today will be obsolete by the time they are professionals. That’s why I think it’s smarter to develop lasting and widely applicable skills like reading, researching, writing, thinking critically, public speaking/presentation, etc. 

Young kids also benefit from doing physical things; imagine that same PP presentation made in Bristol board form, with cutouts from magazines that she shaped and glued onto the paper. That process of DOING things and using her hands in a physical way is profoundly fulfilling to a child. It develops important fine motor skills. We should be seeking ways to reduce screen time and replace with embodied activities, not doing the opposite (which seems to be the theme in public schools these days).

MK: As children get into their tween and teen years, more and more of their schoolwork will be online or on a computer. How do you keep kids on track with their schoolwork while reducing the temptation of other things they can do on their computers, like gaming and social media?

KM: Keep computers in a central location in the home where you can see what they’re doing. Take away their phones during homework time, as they pose an enormous distraction. (Even we adults struggle with it at work!) Make rules that no other apps can be running at the same time. Whenever something can be done offline (like research in a library using books), do it. Write drafts by hand. Read physical books. Print out worksheets and do them on paper. Give them physical tools that aren’t on phones, like calculators and alarm clocks and notepads and pens. Teach them how to focus and use time efficiently—a valuable life lesson. Set an example with your own actions. Keep talking to them about it. It won’t be perfect, but there are benefits to be had from persisting.

MK: How do you respond to parents who want to reduce their children’s screen time without going quite as far as what you describe in the book? How does this connect with a parent’s own relationship with their devices?

KM: The goal of the book is to meet parents wherever they’re at, and I hope it has something for everyone in it. I share the example of my own family’s life, and that of other screen-free families, as inspiration to show that more drastic screen-reduction measures are absolutely possible. Some parents need/want to hear that. I don’t expect everyone to want to take it that far.

I tell parents that it’s never too late to rein in bad digital media habits, to reassess based on new information, to implement new family norms. Meet with your kids every few months to review and discuss the rules and expectations surrounding screen time. Figure out what works for you. Different kids handle digital media differently. Some fall apart completely, others are relatively unaffected. You alone are the expert on your family and you have the right to change your mind.

Parents must set an example. Don’t be on your phone all the time, to the exclusion of everyone and everything around. You must model the kind of behaviour you want from your child.

MK: Anything else you’d like to add?

KM: Parenting with fewer screens is harder work. Your home will be louder, more chaotic, busier, but that’s not a bad thing. With that comes creativity, laughter, conversations, important questions, and great family memories. Accept that you will have to put in more effort to keep kids occupied and stimulated—enriching their offline life, as I often say—but you will be rewarded with kids who are happier, better adjusted, curious, and more engaged with the world around them.

Childhood Unplugged: Practical Advice to Get Kids Off Screens and Find Balance by Katherine Johnson Martinko is available now in paperback, Kindle, and audiobook formats. It is published by New Society Publishers. Martinko is a former writer and senior editor for Treehugger. A mother of three children, she continues to write extensively about free-range parenting, outdoor play, cooking, travel, and more. She lives in Port Elgin, Ontario. Visit The Analog Family for more.